Another Paradise Garage Website

[conor l]

There are a lot of points to touch on here so let me pick one and work my way in-ward.

@ conor . . . .
are you seriously saying that the reason The Saint didn't get it fair due is because everyone died off and no-one was left to tell the tail I mean tale ?

Im just raising the possibility. Ive heard AIDS was loosely called 'Saints' disease early on due to how many members were affected by it. It may not be a central reason but definitely a big one.

So what does this mean if none of these dj went to the Saint? . . . .
surely someone went to the Saint . . and talked about it.

Ian Levine went there and said in an interview on djhistory.com that there could never be another club like it and that it shut all his other memories of clubs to the back of his mind. He talks about it in glowing terms much the way others have spoke about the garage.

Conor . . . the Garage was Queen Central . . . . . but you know that.

I do but the impression Ive always gotten(again correct me if wrong), was that the Garage crowd was much more mixed than the Saint was

These are just a few of the reasons the Garage is still talked about.
And even though the term has been perverted . . . let us not forget an entire style of music labeled "Garage".

To me the main reason the Garage is talked about is the hype that has surrounded Larry Levan since his premature death. Dave Piccioni(Who knew larry and went to the garage) said it was a bit ridiculous the amount of hype. This isnt to diminish Larry or his talent. He is one of my favourite DJs and a big inspiration for me starting to DJ myself, but it is a fashionable thing to name drop him in some circles.


Anyway, Im not looking for a row here. Im not making any statements, only raising questions. I dont think its as clear cut to say The Garage is better than the Saint or whatnot. They meant different things to different people and in my eyes no less important than one another in the development of dance music as a whole.

[LuvLatins]

Im just raising the possibility. Ive heard AIDS was loosely called 'Saints' disease early on due to how many members were affected by it. It may not be a central reason but definitely a big one.

Sadly this is true, in fact the disease was such a rampage to this club that it attempted to go straight at the end in an attempt to stay viable but there is no doubt in my mind that AIDS also killed the Saint.

So what does this mean if none of these dj went to the Saint? . . . .
surely someone went to the Saint . . and talked about it.

Ian Levine went there and said in an interview on djhistory.com that there could never be another club like it and that it shut all his other memories of clubs to the back of his mind. He talks about it in glowing terms much the way others have spoke about the garage.

Clearly even you Ralph must admit that the acretecture and way the Saint was built was far superior to the Garage. I have been all over the world and I have yet to see another club that has even come close. The entire atmosphere was astonishing and nothing in my opinion has been built since that can compare.

Conor . . . the Garage was Queen Central . . . . . but you know that.

I do but the impression Ive always gotten(again correct me if wrong), was that the Garage crowd was much more mixed than the Saint was

Conor IMO is correct. Yes the Garage was gay when it started but as it gained popularity didnt they open two nights Friday was Gay and Saturday was straight. It did not start that way but as it grew and became an ICON it did cater to both audiences. The Saint never did this. It stayed a private gay club until AIDS destroyed it. Yes the last dismal few months it also tried the Straight approach to new clients but it failed. I think becuase the Garage did successfully adjust and cater to both is one of the reasons it to this day remains more talked about then the Saint. Its sad that the Movie Maestro goes on and on about the Garage and there is not even a mention of the Saint.

These are just a few of the reasons the Garage is still talked about.
And even though the term has been perverted . . . let us not forget an entire style of music labeled "Garage".
To me the main reason the Garage is talked about is the hype that has surrounded Larry Levan since his premature death. Dave Piccioni(Who knew larry and went to the garage) said it was a bit ridiculous the amount of hype. This isnt to diminish Larry or his talent. He is one of my favourite DJs and a big inspiration for me starting to DJ myself, but it is a fashionable thing to name drop him in some circles.


Anyway, Im not looking for a row here. Im not making any statements, only raising questions. I dont think its as clear cut to say The Garage is better than the Saint or whatnot. They meant different things to different people and in my eyes no less important than one another in the development of dance music as a whole.

Larry was a big part of the Hype and the Success. His music and his now famous edits did attact a lot of attention. Larry was amazing. Even though I only was in the garage a few times, I did get to experience Larry on a few occastions and he was amazing. Would be interested in hearing more from Shorty and Gary of GSA on the actual differences in the Sound.

The BASS is what I rememeber most at the Garage, and there was this strange breeze that I felt when dancing on the dance floor. Dont know if it was supplemental HVAC or Fans or what but it made dancing in that space so pleasent. I mentioned this on another site somewhere and someone explained why just cant remember.

I was never really impressed by the lighting at the Garage and it does not stand out in my memory. I do remember the Crystal Room and the long ramp going in and the large spining Police type lights but nothing else jumps out. The Garage sound, hmmm that is an entire different thread and discussion. But the Saint also had a very unique sound as evidenced by us forming this group :)

Instead of going on and on about them lets see someone build another one

Hehehehe NYC recent Pacha addition in the old Sound Factory space I hear is not that great. I will soon see and here for myself.

[LuvLatins]

Ralph I think Shorty has some great custom pictures of the Garage.

Hey Shorty did you ever get around to imaging those Garage photos ?

Is so please post them Ralph could also add them on his site. His site is hot. The Logo is Amazing I want ONE :p

Check out his site: http://garage.graphicproduction.org/

[LuvLatins]

I cant wait to hear more from Ralph. The memories as I get older are beginning to fade. No I'm not that old, but the great times are a thing now sadly of the past. Jim and Jan help me out here. Try to help me describe what those days were like.

The Village People were singing on major radio stations, the era of the 60s -- The Vietnam war was over and being Gay was cool. That's right it was COOL. In 1976, if you did not know or have a friend that was Gay you were a looser. As you can see by the date this was before the AIDS disaster. Everyone was happy. Recreational drugs were everywhere all anyone wanted to do was party on a Saturday Night.

Sex, ahhhhh the difference why some of us are still here and many of us are now gone. I believe I am still here because I needed to be in love and to be intimate. I was called a sorry soul because I wanted affection, love, I could not do the one night stand thing (at least not as well as those now gone)

I also was not so into the drugs but check out these attached files. No these are not fake documents they are the real deal. These were documents actually distributed at the Saint. During that period, the drugs were recreational and almost everyone was doing them. It was even thought that Cocaine was not addictive. Crazy but the freedom of the 70s and the drugs, as we know now, were a total disaster.

Like today, Crystal methamphetamine or Tina is destroying an entire generation. This Drug is Evil, strips you of all low self esteem, makes you horny and takes over. This Drug even today is the leading cause of spreading AIDS. OK off the soup box but if I can even save one person STAY CLEAR OF THIS DRUG ! DONT EVEN TRY IT -- NOT EVEN ONCE and I am serious.

I miss the old days, we were innocent and the music was a major factor for why we went out. The music was important. We wanted to take the journey. We wanted the DJ to take us to places unknown. I even remember once at the Ice Place 57th street in Manhattan (Not the one on Fire Island), The DJ out of no where began playing a country square dancing tune and to my amazement everyone on the dace floor began square dancing. God today, if you even play an old Saint or Garage tune I have been told the dance floor clears.

I miss these times and that is why we formed this group. We want to preserve all things from that era so that the younger generation that was not around can relive the experience though our words. History is odd, it would not surprise me if this era of joy, happiness, and dancing returns with a vengeance, I only hope that the end of this new story is a happy one.

Jim Jump in here !

James

[soundmanshorty]

Ralph I think Shorty has some great custom pictures of the Garage.

Hey Shorty did you ever get around to imaging those Garage photos ?

Is so please post them Ralph could also add them on his site. His site is hot. The Logo is Amazing I want ONE :p

Check out his site: http://garage.graphicproduction.org/

I looked into posting these pics, seems the amount of the system i have pictures of and what it shows of that room as it was being torn apart would not be a smart thing to post cause of copy rt laws and i would have issues, so i cant post them. Sry i looked into it but no dice

[LuvLatins]

Bummer that is so sad. Another piece of history denied to the public. Hey Shorty call me at home tomorrow if you have time or even now I am up

Love James

[conor l]

Hehehehe NYC recent Pacha addition in the old Sound Factory space I hear is not that great. I will soon see and here for myself.

Tis Spirit in the old Sound Factory space. Pacha is in the old Sound Factory Bar space(Confusing I know!) which were 2 different clubs.

TBH these clubs are moneymaking ventures. Ive played in and been to Spirit in Dublin (which was the original one). They have all the big US DJs over like Knuckles, Morales, Vega, Felix Da Housecat etc. over and the crowd are generally either boozed up or coked up, either way not a nice vibe. Put it this way, if its the pinnacle of what clubbing is supposed to be all about, Im wasting my time. I cant imagine the NY is hugely different TBH as its the same owners.

Ive been to Pacha in Ibiza aswell and AFAIK, its the same owners there of the NY venue and they have a chain of Pacha clubs all around Europe aswell. The Ibiza one was the original though, dating back to the 70's. Its a nice club, with a good system and it primarily hosts House DJs like Knuckles, Morales, Erick Morillo, Roger Sanchez etc. and is ok music wise, nothing groundbreaking. The crowd though, is very up itself and is only interested in themselves, money, sex, VIP areas, VVIP areas(Yes they actually have one!) and (in a lot of cases) drugs.

The problem nowadays is that you dont really have guys owning clubs who are interested in the quality of the party and are willing to stop at nothing to get that detail right. Its all about profit margins and bar tils for waaaaay too many

[gpdesigner]

I let the white pin spot strike the top of the rainbow reflective material on the Cabassa and it would throw thousands of rainbow beams back off the top of the instrument and all over the dance floor.

That must have looked awesome . . I would have used that as an effect during a song. Kind of play to the dance floor and at the break cut to the scattering effect in the center of the room, the cut to full dancefloor coverage . . .

Clearly even you Ralph must admit that the acretecture and way the Saint was built was far superior to the Garage.

True . . . . I admitted that . . . . I was in there, it was very well put together . . .
I will be honest here and say that because I was a employee of Michael Brody?s I could never align my self with another club, not to diminish and good standing of any club I am just Garage at heart. I grew a lot emotionally, spiritually and professionally at that place.

As someone who is straight, I learned to over come a lot of Gay stereo typing a lot of which I owe to Noel Garcia who sadly is no longer with us and it kills me to think about that. A personal conversation between him and I, he promised me that he would be careful, and he seemed to have gone from that path . . . .

Professionally, it brought me into the world of Lighting, and made it possible for me to do much of all the good things that have happened in my life. I would have not met my wife were it not for my production background.

And believe it or not, that dancefloor helped me break out of an emotional shell that I was living in . . .

So weather I like it or not the Garage is in my blood . . . . (chilling thought)

I do but the impression Ive always gotten(again correct me if wrong), was that the Garage crowd was much more mixed than the Saint was

This is true, Friday night was straight night and Saturday was Gay night, if there was a Sunday party the crowd was mixed. But the foundations of the club and the initial intensions were to open a Gay nightclub, I guess Michael figured he wanted a broader audience.

To me the main reason the Garage is talked about is the hype that has surrounded Larry Levan since his premature death. Dave Piccioni(Who knew larry and went to the garage) said it was a bit ridiculous the amount of hype.

I will concede to the amount of hype, as it may have been a bit much. There was a lot of things that I have seen Larry do professionally that was awesome, I even on Rare occasions, (very rare occasions), did the lights for him, so a lot of things I saw. Like I never knew you could mix a reel to reel tape deck before
This may be normal now but he did that shit with ease . . . .
True the hype may have been a bit over the top but there are some things that are totally deserving.

Anyway, Im not looking for a row here. Im not making any statements, only raising questions. I dont think its as clear cut to say The Garage is better than the Saint or whatnot.

I know you aren?t, sorry if I came off like that my typing skills are for fast flowing forums I need to chill a bit. . . but you are correct, the decision of which club was better is not as clear cut.


Ok True Story . . . .
One night I headed down to the front door to hang out with Noel for a bit,
When I got there he asked me if I ever heard of a guy named ?Hamberger?
Hamberger . . who the heck was that ? . . I told Noel I never heard of anyone by this name.
Noel said the guy came to the club and wanted to get in but because he wasn?t a member and Noel didn?t know who he was I turned him away . . .
Noel said ?Hamberger? was a rock musician and since he knew I liked rock he would ask me if I knew him . . . .
I tried to think of who this could be . . . . ?Hamberger?!?
I then asked Noel what the guy looked like . . . heavey set, long dark hair, leathers, studded rings . . .
I started to think . . . Hamberger . . . . Hmmm . . .
Meatloaf . . ?
Yes . . that was it . . . . Noel said . .
Meatloaf, . . where is he I asked Noel . . = I didn?t let him in because I didn?t know who he was . . . .



To describe the lighting at the Garage, I would need to start out with talking about the dance floor area itself. Basically it was a box, just like the club, which was sound proofed by fiberglass panels on the walls and in the ceiling. There was sand under the dance floor itself but not for ease of dancing as someone mentioned here, it was there to dull the sound.

First let me say that I am still a Lighting Designer, I have been at this since 1982, so most of the explanation of the lighting concept at the Garage is coming from retrospect, I totally understood the design back in the 80?s while I was working there, but with the experience of years behind me I now understand all the nuances of the planning and layout that made the lighting system great.

If you want a layout plot lamp for lamp, you can go to my site and read it here . . . .
But right now I am going to cut to the chance and give you the dynamic.

Well all know that lighting is totally subjective, what is good for some may suck to others so to say one thing is better than the other is really not a reasonable response. Let me start out by saying the Lighting at the Saint was awesome. So I am not slamming it in any way, as a matter of fact, as a lighting designer, I give kudos? to the people that put that system together. Technically and artistically the Lighting system at the Saint was cutting edge. At that time moving fixtures and mechanized lighting was just getting under way, the Saint made a bold move, they were on pulse. Another club that was cutting edge was the Palladium who had the very first Vari-lighting system out side of the concert arena.
By now we all know vari-light was the baby of the group Genesis . . . bla bla bla . . . .
So for clubs to now start having moving fixtures was the ?in? thing to do.
And if I am not mistaken 1018 was the first club in the city to start using intellabeams,
Derek Vasquez a good friend of mine also a former Garage lighting tech was the head tech over at 1018 so we all kind of saw the intellabeam thing take off.

Anyway . . . . what made the Garage lighting awesome was the concept of immersion.
What I mean by that is the art of color washing and painting. Much like at a rock concert but from the on stage view as oppose to looking at it from the venue.
Because the Garage dancefloor space was small, it was possible to saturate it with colors and effects.
When the room was dark, and a red flood wash was turned on, that red color saturated the room, your entire body was bathed in it. That red color existed on you, between you and around you. You could feel it and see it on your eyelids.
To me this sort of light immersion helps one get to whatever state they are looking for when they dance. And after all that is what the Garage was all about . . . Dancing.

What I said in the ?missed placed thread? was that the lighting at the Saint was like looking at a concert from the audience point of view and the lighting at the Garage was like being on stage. Personally when I dance I like the idea of immersion, it helps me vege? out. My concentration when I dance is on me IF I want to see the lighting effects.
Where as at the Saint, if I wanted to see the lighting effects, I had to look up.

Ralph

[LuvLatins]

Facinating really !

And I must agree the lighting at the Saint did look best "Looking In" In fact one of my favorite things to do was climb up to the third floor and look down and into the dance floor. As you know the dome was transparent kind of like a one way mirror so from outside looking in was awsome. Look at the attached pictures they are from the outside looking in. And then just one from the INSIDE looking UP (Grin)

I do have a vauge memory of the way the dance floor at the Garage did kind of immerse you in its lights.

I hope Marsha, who was a good freind of Roy Thode, joins our group soon she is also a lighting designer. Daniel and I were looking at here website the other day, look at this room kind of looks like the Saint. Definetly some infuences going on here http://www.msldc.com/publicity/ld92000_5.html


Here is the general link to her Home Page http://www.msldc.com/

[LuvLatins]

WOW GP I was shocked to read in the Audio article at the garage that

5. The Audionics Space & Image Composer, a 4 channel synthesizer; and 6. New devices currently under development, such as the Acoustilog Image enhancer which expands the stereo effect. All of these devices except the last two are currently installed at the Garage.

They may not have been installed but imagine if they had been. The Audionics Space and Image Composer was one of the key elements of the Saints sound system and needed because of the Dome shape of the Saint but it was interesting to read that the Audio guys at the Garage new about it and it was considered. A really good read. Now back for the lighting section.

James

[gpdesigner]

Hello All,
sorry I haven't been around much, working and doing projects like mad . . .
I did an update to the Garage Tribute site, thought I would share with ya'
here is the link . . . enjoy it.
Garage Tribute

peace
Ralph . . .

[LuvLatins]

WOW kewl, cant wait to take a look at it. Welcome Back !

[Barry]

I am not too sure

WOW GP I was shocked to read in the Audio article at the garage that



They may not have been installed but imagine if they had been. The Audionics Space and Image Composer was one of the key elements of the Saints sound system and needed because of the Dome shape of the Saint but it was interesting to read that the Audio guys at the Garage new about it and it was considered. A really good read. Now back for the lighting section.

James

James I am not sure if what you say is true. I was a close friend of Dick Long. He was great with sound installation and the one at the Garage was outstanding.
But the sound at the Saint was richer and had more defintion, whereas the Garage was still just too loud. But hey we had a great time
Barry

[LuvLatins]

Interesting Barry. I always felt that the bottom end at the Garage was fantastic. The Saint had a nicer middle and High end, In my opinion. I dont remember the BASS or bottom end at the Sait being really powerful however that may be because the Sound System at the Saint was all hidden away (Nothing in site) That is what made it like dancing in outter space.

Your correct - Great memories.